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Miles Harper's avatar

Hi Guy,

When you say:

"I was one of them. I was, one of them, who chased endlessly words as if they were the tools to free my mind from using words to free my mind from chasing words as if words were actual truth-carriers and not snakes selling disembodied spiritual panaceas and utopias as the secret to end our wordy narratives of victimhood and suffering."

I see much the same lies in that which I brought into the men's meeting time after time. An unbridled contagion that felt like the right thing to do in the moment, because to do nothing as the expression of the saving grace of God might not get the point across.

I reflect very much on the lies of Aaron in the OT, especially in the fact that it is his self-consciousness that makes him intolerant of a known mystery of God, while wielding the word and the lie in order to enact an authority as one ordained but not embodied to be still.

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Jasun Horsley's avatar

I read the first half, but I ended up feeling like you were strawmanning Hart for your own hidden (unconscious?) ends; unlike you, I have read the entire Hart book, as well as one other. I have a strong aversion, as you do, to the reduction of God, or even consciousness, to “mind,” and am also wary of anything that looks like a denial of unconscious processes. Yet I had no particular sense of that, reading Hart (he is even occasionally humorous).

I would agree, having read the whole book, that he goes on too long and that the book becomes a rather tediously philosophical work (the best stuff is in the 1st 50 pages). But I wouldn’t overly criticize Hart for this, because he has clearly written his book on God with atheists and agnostics foremost in mind, and is addressing a number of the standard definitions, mis-definitions, and arguments for and against God, in an attempt to be comprehensive to the field (he is an academic as well as a Christian).

I am not defending Hart, however, and I am more than open to hearing ways in which he gets it wrong, is a false prophet, has feet of clay, a shill, you name it; I am always open to seeing writers or artists more successful, and potentially better, than me cut down to size. But this essay didn’t provide me with anything I could really use to that end, alas. I found it hard to grasp the precise nature of your disagreement; it seemed more heady-based and abstract than Hart (though I agree the passages you cite seem dry and obscure when taken out of context).

I noted with irony how you used logic to try and dethrone logic. Logic = Logos = ratio = rationality. It is that which brings things into relation and balance; it is the means by which we know God, in the highest sense (via Christ), and anything at all, in the broadest sense.

There are no arguments against logic or rationality, finally, except that, logically, they are limited and that chaos and unconsciousness exist. The fact that all arguments require rationality and logic means the better we argue against logic, the more we disprove our own argument!

There’s a better argument to be made for language as inherently deceptive, but then we also end up in a Catch-22, as Cretans declaring that all Cretans lie all the time.

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